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Future Energy Policy
A debate on motion
S2M-3870, in the name of Alex Johnstone, on future energy policy.
The Deputy
Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
The next item is a debate on motion S2M-3870, in the name of Alex Johnstone,
on future energy policy.
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con):
It appears that it is not only I who believe that the time has come for the
debate. In the past week, we have seen stories in the Sunday Herald trying
to undermine the credibility of the cross-party group on the civil nuclear
industry, and today the BBC website is carrying a story about a leaked
report that attempts to rubbish efforts by Government agencies to find
solutions to the nuclear waste problem.
Energy efficiency has its place, but we must remember that the provision of
electric trains and trams may push up future demands for electricity, so we
must consider where that electricity will come from.
Of course, carbon sequestration is possible, but it will come at a price,
and when fuel poverty is one of the declared priorities of the Parliament,
we must always consider the price of power as it is generated. We are always
told that nuclear energy is expensive, but if we compare it with energy
produced by the traditional generators, who in the past were able to throw
their pollution into the air, we realise that the true cost of traditional
methods of power generation has never been assessed properly. With the
imposition of a carbon tax, there may be a much more level marketplace.
Wind turbines have often been the subject of discussion in the Parliament,
but they are not a cheap way of generating electricity either. The system of
renewables obligation certificates has served to encourage such development
and to offset the price to some extent, but we must always remember that the
true cost is the cost that we will ultimately pay, and the true cost of wind
energy is extremely high.
The First Minister has said that the Scottish Executive will not make any
decisions on the future of nuclear power in Scotland until the issue of
radioactive waste management has been resolved properly. We must also
recognise that the issue of nuclear waste storage and disposal is
essentially an historical one, built up over 60 years. A new generation of
nuclear power stations will add only marginally to the total waste burden,
and could certainly be accommodated within the solution to an historical
backlog.
Finally, I remind the Executive of some prophetic words, which ministers
would do well to heed in the future:
"Two nagging questions remain. In terms of security of supply, does it make
sense — even with a substantial contribution from renewables — to become so
dependent on imported gas? And does it make sense, at the very time
when climate change and the reduction of greenhouse gases have shot up the
political agenda, to be planning the elimination of nuclear power?"
I move,
That the Parliament notes with interest the UK Energy Review; believes that
provision of a secure and affordable supply of electricity is essential to
Scotland's future prosperity, and therefore believes that all options,
including the construction of new nuclear power stations to replace existing
nuclear capacity, should be considered for inclusion in Scotland's future
energy mix.
The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson):
The Executive amendment reflects our commitment to our policy objectives on
increasing the proportion of energy generated from renewable sources,
tackling climate change and fuel poverty, and ensuring security of supply
for Scottish consumers. Current and future security of energy supply for
Scotland is dependent on supporting a diverse fuel mix — of which nuclear is
undoubtedly an important part — and on constant dialogue with United Kingdom
Government colleagues and, crucially, the regulators and the companies
themselves.
We recognise that we must find solutions to our future energy needs that
improve the efficiency with which we use energy while reducing the
environmental impact of energy generation.
Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP):
Will the minister indicate when the study into Scotland's energy needs,
which was promised before the end of last year, will be published?
Allan Wilson:
This afternoon.
We have set targets for 40 per cent of our energy supply to come from
renewables by 2020. That is a fourfold increase on the current level of
renewables generation.
We have invested £3 million in the European Marine Energy Centre in Orkney
and we recently announced our intention to amend the renewables obligation
to award increased renewables obligation certificates to wave and tidal
output. The success of using ROCs to incentivise the growth of renewables
capacity has been seen in the sizeable growth achieved in renewable
generation development.
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):
The minister referred to 2020. What does he estimate the gigawatt output
requirement will be in 2020? Up until now we have been given percentages,
but percentages of what?
Allan Wilson:
The energy study that we have implemented and which has just been referred
to maps energy supply and demand in relation to not only electricity
generation but transport and domestic use. It shows demand
between 1990 to 2002. The next stage of the study will map future demand and
will investigate where energy can be sourced from.
The biomass and marine energy sectors in Scotland are thriving and present
us with the potential for an additional 1.5GW of installed capacity and to
create jobs, and the opportunity to establish Scotland as a global
renewables powerhouse in the process.
We are developing our own energy efficiency strategy to complement the
United Kingdom strategy. Last year we allocated £20 million to help bring
about public sector energy efficiencies.
On climate change, which I think everyone will agree is the most important
issue that faces the world, we will publish a revised Scottish climate
change programme to complement the forthcoming UK programme and to provide a
framework for the development of Scottish climate change targets.
Finally, as a crucial part of the considered and informed debate that we
hope to have on energy policy, we will, as I said, publish later today the
first two volumes of the Scottish energy study. Those were commissioned in
2004 to provide a factual overview of energy supply and demand trends in
Scotland between 1990 and 2002.
The Scottish Executive is represented on Pilot, the joint
industry-Government group that is tasked with creating a climate in which
the UK continental shelf can retain its position as a pre-eminent active
centre of
oil and gas exploration, development and production and in which the UK
contracting and supplies industry remain at the leading edge of
competitiveness. The UK and the UK continental shelf still represent a
favourable market for oil and gas operators to invest in.
We recognise the contribution that the development of cleaner coal
technologies can make to the energy mix. Scottish Enterprise commissioned
and, last September, published a piece of work on carbon capture and storage
to complement the Department of Trade and Industry's own carbon abatement
technologies strategy, which was launched in June of last year. DTI
commitments to invest in cleaner coal technologies research and development
projects amount to £13 million.
The Executive's amendment recognises that to meet Scotland's future energy
needs, we must have a reasoned discussion about the realities of energy
supply and consumption. That is why we are working closely with the UK
Government on the UK energy review and why we foresaw the need for a
comprehensive piece of research on energy trends in Scotland. To meet
Scotland's long-term energy needs, we must recognise the role that
conventional fuel sources play in the energy mix. My only argument with the
Tory motion is that it focuses consideration on one source of supply to the
exclusion of others. The energy review is about more than nuclear power,
although we recognise the role that nuclear power plays in generating
electricity for Scotland.
We will await the findings of the Committee on Radioactive Waste Management
report in July and we will engage with the UK energy review. I encourage
everybody else to do likewise.
I move amendment S2M-3870.4, to leave out from "notes" to end and insert:
"supports the Scottish Executive's continuing commitment to the development
of a wide range of renewable energy technologies in Scotland as a key
element of a balanced energy supply mix; supports the Executive's target
that 40% of electricity generated in Scotland by 2020 should come from
renewable sources; looks forward to publication of the revised Scottish
Climate Change Programme and the consideration given to the contribution of
energy efficiency and renewables to reduce carbon dioxide emissions;
endorses the Executive's commitment to tackling fuel poverty; acknowledges
the Executive's commitment to not support further development of nuclear
power stations while waste management issues remain unresolved; welcomes the
forthcoming release of the first two volumes of the Scottish Energy Study;
recognises the importance of the UK energy review, and supports the
Executive's engagement with the UK Government, Ofgem and the energy industry
to ensure that the future energy supply needs of Scotland are met."
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
In their motion, the Tories avoided the hard questions. For example, they
avoided the question of what the cost was of developing nuclear power in the
past. They do not tell us how
much the taxpayer paid to do that, nor do they measure that cost against the
cost of developing renewables. In the main, the funding for renewables seems
to be coming from the private purse, albeit with some Government subsidy.
There is an alternative. The problem that the Tories have is that they
consider the British context, in which large centres of population can be
served by large units. In Scotland, we have a much more dispersed
population. We need to consider the process of serving that population and
accessing the wider market for what we can produce from clean sources. The
Tory argument is skewed away from the reality of meeting the needs of
Scottish constituents.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
You must close now.
Rob Gibson:
By privatising the grid and making it a free market organisation, the
Government is causing us in Scotland to have this stupid debate, which does
not address the reality and the potential —
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
I have to stop you.
Allan Wilson:
I agree that the energy study that will be published this afternoon will
shed light on the matter. I hope that as a consequence we will have more
light and less heat in future.
We cannot divorce Scotland from the rest of the UK. We have a single energy
market here in Scotland. We acknowledge that nuclear power plays an
important role in that single market in generating electricity for Scotland.
We await the findings of CORWM in July. We will engage with the UK energy
review, rather than speculating wildly on its outcome and possible
implications for Scotland.
The energy review will assess progress against four goals: to put the UK on
a path to cut carbon dioxide emissions by 60 per cent by about 2050, with
real progress made by 2020; to maintain the reliability of energy supplies;
to promote competitive markets in the UK and beyond; and to ensure that
every home is heated adequately and affordably.
Richard Lochhead:
Is the Scottish Government going to make a submission to the UK energy
review?
Allan Wilson:
Yes and part of that submission will refer to the energy study that we have
commissioned.
There has been a lot of discussion about waste, which is important. We have
said that we will not sanction the construction of new nuclear power
stations until the issue of waste is resolved. We have a legacy of carbon
waste. To date, no safe disposal route for carbon waste has been found. Our
industrial society has historically dumped that waste into the earth's
atmosphere in the shape of CO2 and other greenhouse gases. That is why many
experts from Kyoto to Montreal, such as Professor King and James Lovelock,
say that the biggest danger to future generations is climate change and
greenhouse gases.
Sarah Boyack is absolutely right to say that there is now a broad scientific
consensus that climate is changing as a result of burning fossil fuels. The
22nd report of the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution, which was
published in 2000, recognised that and said that the proven ways of
generating electricity on a large scale without producing carbon dioxide are
nuclear fission, large-scale inland water power and tidal barrages.
Shiona Baird:
Is the minister saying that the whole life cycle of nuclear power does not
create any CO2 emissions and that it is clean?
Allan Wilson:
I am not arguing the case for or against in that context. I am saying that
the reason why Professor King and James Lovelock, who are environmentalists
like Shiona Baird, support the nuclear option is that it combats the effects
of climate change.
Shiona Baird's prospective allies in the SNP claimed that the CORWM report
was a leak. It is of course nothing of the sort. The Greens have to examine
their prospective relationship with the nationalists, the alliance between
the Greens and the yellows — the environmentalists on one hand and the
environmental cowards on the other. From what Richard Lochhead said, it
sounds like the SNP wants to burn more gas and therefore increase CO2
emissions. If the oil companies shout "jump", Alex Salmond shouts, "How
high?" Richard Lochhead and Alex Salmond want to hoover up every last fish
in the North sea and ignore all the scientific advice. I put it to Shiona
Baird that the relationship or love affair — or flirtation, as Patrick
Harvie put it — is nothing less than attempted rape by the nationalists.
Nora Radcliffe made an important point on the Carbon Trust's report on
marine energy, which is a welcome endorsement of the potential of marine
renewables, which is very much in line with the Executive's plans for the
sector. The Executive and the Carbon Trust will work together further to
promote marine renewables.
I recommend heartily that everyone make their contribution to the UK energy
review.
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
There are up to seven questions to be put as a result of today's business.
In relation to the debate on future energy policy, if the amendment in the
name of Allan Wilson is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Richard
Lochhead will fall.
The Presiding Officer:
The next question is, that amendment S2M-3870.4, in the name of Allan
Wilson, which seeks to amend motion S2M-3870, in the name of Alex Johnstone,
on future energy policy, be agreed to. Are we
agreed?
Members:
No.
The Presiding Officer:
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer:
The result of the division is: For 63, Against 38, Abstentions 8.
Amendment agreed to.
The Presiding Officer:
Therefore, the amendment in the name of Richard Lochhead falls.
The next question is, that motion S2M-3870, in the name of Alex Johnstone,
on future energy policy, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Presiding Officer:
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer:
The result of the division is: For 64, Against 38, Abstentions 7.
Motion, as amended, agreed to.
Resolved,
That the Parliament supports the Scottish Executive's continuing commitment
to the development of a wide range of renewable energy technologies in
Scotland as a key element of a balanced energy supply mix; supports the
Executive's target that 40% of electricity generated in Scotland by 2020
should come from renewable sources; looks forward to publication of the
revised Scottish Climate Change Programme and the consideration given to the
contribution of energy efficiency and renewables to reduce carbon dioxide
emissions; endorses the Executive's commitment to tackling fuel poverty;
acknowledges the Executive's commitment to not support further development
of nuclear power stations while waste management issues remain unresolved;
welcomes the forthcoming release of the first two volumes of the Scottish
Energy Study; recognises the importance of the UK energy review, and
supports the Executive's engagement with the UK Government, Ofgem and the
energy industry to ensure that the future energy supply needs of Scotland
are met.
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