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Co-operation With Ireland
A debate on motion
S2M-4899, in the name of Dennis Canavan "Report on an Inquiry into Possible
Co-operation Between Scotland and Ireland".
The Deputy
Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-4899, in the name of
Dennis Canavan, on behalf of the European and External Relations Committee,
on the committee's third report in 2006, "Report on an Inquiry into Possible
Co-operation Between Scotland and Ireland".
Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West) (Ind):
The people of Scotland and the people of Ireland have much in common in our
history and our heritage. We also have much in common in terms of our vision
for a better future. As a consequence, there is considerable scope for
co-operation between our two countries in areas such as cultural exchange,
tourism, sport, education and transport, with significant social and
economic benefits for the people of Scotland and Ireland.
The evidence that I received during the course of this inquiry indicated
widespread support for co-operation between Scotland and Ireland. The fact
that I was given the opportunity to meet Irish Government ministers,
including the Taoiseach, is a sign that the matter is a high priority for
the Irish Government. The First Minister has also expressed strong support
on behalf of the Scottish Executive.
There are many good reasons for a programme of co-operation between Scotland
and Ireland and, for some projects, there might be the added bonus of access
to funding under the European Union co-operation objective that is to
replace Interreg at the end of the year. Northern Ireland and the Republic
of Ireland already have experience of accessing Interreg funding for a
programme of cross-border co-operation. From next year, some parts of
Scotland will be able to participate with the Republic of Ireland and
Northern
Ireland in qualifying for cross-border co-operation funding because, in
places, the Scottish coast and the Republic of Ireland coast are less than
150km apart, which is one of the qualifying criteria for such funding.
I move,
That the Parliament notes the conclusions and recommendations contained in
the European and External Relations Committee's 3rd Report, 2006 (Session
2): Report on an Inquiry into Possible Co-operation between
Scotland and Ireland (SP Paper 607).
The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson):
I welcome the European and External Relations Committee's debate. If I may,
I will take the opportunity again to outline the Executive's support for
future co-operation with Ireland. I warmly welcome the committee's recent
inquiry and subsequent report on the subject, and pay tribute to Dennis
Canavan for the hard work that he has done and the enthusiasm with which he
approached his task. I did some work on the issue in the summer, and I
seldom came across anyone who had not previously spoken to Dennis Canavan or
who was not scheduled to speak to him in his role as rapporteur to the
committee.
Like Dennis Canavan, I have ancestors from Ireland: in my case, they come
from Antrim in Northern Ireland.
Given the strong historical, economic and cultural links that exist between
Scotland, Northern Ireland and Ireland, I and other Scottish ministers are
committed to encouraging co-operation and joint working throughout the
Executive's policy portfolio, wherever opportunities for mutual economic and
social benefit exist.
As a result of work with the Irish consul general in Edinburgh, several
areas have been identified in which Scotland and Ireland confront similar
challenges and in which potential exists for further co-operation and idea
sharing. A prime example of that is the First Minister's visit to Dublin in
August 2004, when he discussed the Irish experience of the implementation of
a smoking ban on that island prior to the implementation of a similar ban in
Scotland. The First Minister has been invited to Dublin later this year,
where he intends to meet the Taoiseach and consider policies that have been
identified as relevant to Scotland and Ireland.
I was in Northern Ireland recently to meet members of the North/South
Ministerial Council to promote the proposed EU cross-border programme and to
visit Northern Irish colleges of education to encourage joint working
between the further education sectors in Scotland and Northern Ireland. We
can benefit mutually from closer co-operation.
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
As many members will know, I too can claim some Irish roots — perhaps more
direct than most. In light of the debate that we have just had on the food
supply chain, does the minister agree that the food production and
agricultural sectors are areas of possible co-operation? What discussions,
if any, has he had on that?
Allan Wilson:
I agree. I can identify two areas of co-operation that relate to the food
chain. The first is, of course, agriculture, but I include fisheries in the
equation, too. I will come on to the matters that we consider to be suitable
for cross-border co-operation.
The Executive is an active participant in the British-Irish Council, which
was established under the Good Friday agreement in 1998 and which aims to
promote co-operation on a range of issues of mutual interest, from transport
and tourism to environmental issues and social inclusion. In November 2002,
Scotland was proud to host a successful summit on social inclusion at New
Lanark. Social inclusion is one of the matters on which we lead in the
council.
As members of the European and External Relations Committee are aware, and
as Dennis Canavan said, we now have an opportunity to develop the new EU
programme for extending cross-border co-operation. I and other ministers
have outlined our strong support for the development of the programme, so I
am pleased to report good progress. Executive ministers and officials have
been involved in detailed discussions with Irish colleagues and Scottish
partners on the programme themes and financial allocations and we expect a
draft programme to go out to consultation in the next few months.
The programme will provide about €200 million, which will help bring
substance to our efforts to encourage joint working on a range of issues,
including enterprise and business development—particularly research and
innovation—tourism, natural and cultural heritage, renewables, maritime and
coastal zone management and, as I said, agriculture and fisheries. Those are
all matters on which we have shared interests with Ireland and Northern
Ireland and on which we can begin to share new ideas and best practice.
A crucial feature of the tripartite programme is that it will provide an
opportunity to develop links between partners from the three areas, which
will encourage further co-operation and develop further economic and social
ties. It is crucial that partners, as well as Governments, continue to make
efforts to facilitate the programme. Opportunities also exist under the
continuing transnational, northern periphery, north-west Europe and Atlantic
coast programmes.
I welcome members' views on those issues, as we are identifying priorities
for the EU programme on cross-border co-operation. I will listen closely to
the debate and respond to any points that arise.
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):
The report is short, as is the debate, but it is focused. Dennis Canavan and
all those who were involved in producing the report are to be commended for
it. The debate has been consensual, which shows the level of support and the
opportunities for us.
As many members have said, co-operation is not simply about addressing our
past and learning from it through social integration and supporting the
peace process in Northern Ireland, but about the present and the future,
because huge opportunities exist. We cannot change our geography — we are
where we are. It is up to us to work with our neighbours. With the Irish
Republic and Northern Ireland, we have not just the shared family histories
on which many members have commented, but shared interests and similar
community sizes and rural peripheralities. We must work at addressing those
matters, so it is heartening that members throughout the chamber have
supported the idea and that the minister is prepared to pick it up and run
with it.
Huge opportunities exist. Given the constituency that he represents, the
minister will be aware of discussions — I remember being involved with
people who were participating in them — about the opportunities that would
come from having a deep-sea port terminal at Hunterston. I was told that 70
per cent of containers to the Irish Republic — we envy the manufacturing
base there and its exports — went through Rotterdam. Ports in Scotland
should seek to access some of those opportunities.
Allan Wilson:
I agree entirely with what Kenny MacAskill said about the consensual nature
of the debate; I would like to continue that consensus.
Recently I met a group of North American congressmen from the energy
committee — a very high-powered committee — who were en route to the middle
east. They spoke of the Scots-Irish diaspora and made no distinction between
the two; nor should they, because we are the same people, divided by history
perhaps, but united in our common humanity.
I am grateful for Dennis Canavan's clarification of the typographical error
to which he referred, which misrepresented his views and those of the
committee and led to my response. We would all agree that we have no plans
to introduce separate programmes; we require to participate in a tripartite
manner with existing cross-border programmes between the Republic of Ireland
and Northern Ireland because we would get maximum value from the
consequential programme for Scotland. In that context, I say to Derek
Brownlee that we are talking not about shares, but about getting the maximum
possible value from broadening and widening our participation in existing
cross-border programmes.
As I have said, the draft programmes are likely to support a range of
activity. Current thinking on the programme structure is that the two
priorities will be economic development such as innovation, business
support, small and medium-sized enterprise development and small-scale
infrastructure, along with the sustainable management of resources such as
tourism, the environment, renewables, marine and coastal zone management,
and natural and cultural heritage.
It is a pity that Jamie McGrigor could not wait for the rest of the debate
before he made his intervention.
Regardless of their political persuasion, everyone in the chamber believes
that the Campbeltown to Ballycastle ferry service is a good thing. The
infrastructure is in place and the Executive has been trying desperately to
reinstate the service. The new programme might give that initiative some
welcome impetus.
Bill Aitken and Helen Eadie referred to transport infrastructure such as
roads, bridges and ferries.
Eligibility for the programme is limited, as is its scope, but its key
elements are to assist the flow of goods, people and connections, so it
might well be possible to address some of those issues.
Bruce Crawford raised a relevant question about the areas that will be
eligible. Parts of the west of Scotland such as Dumfries and Galloway, south
Ayrshire, Argyll and the isles are all included in the eligible areas for
the programme. In addition, we are making strenuous efforts to persuade the
Commission to include North Ayrshire, East Ayrshire and the Western Isles.
Bruce Crawford:
Might it be advantageous to have discussions with the Department of Trade
and Industry about how Scotland can access the same fund for connections
into France, Holland and other countries with which we would not normally
have any contact?
Allan Wilson:
Very much so, and that links to the point that Bruce Crawford's colleague
made about the wider Scots-Irish diaspora, as well as points that were made
by my good friend Bill Aitken about cultural initiatives. The Columba
initiative that was mentioned by Dennis Canavan is one good example. It was
set up by my colleague Brian Wilson when he was in the Scottish Office and
it sought to bring together our cultural heritage and rejoice in the broad
range of Celtic culture.
Our anti-sectarianism initiative is a good example of an area in which the
Irish believe that they can learn from us because of the historic roots of
the conflict on that island.
The Irish economy has had its successes, but we know that it has the same —
if not more — acute problems with worklessness and employability, so the
Irish look at our workforce-plus proposals and our wider proposals on
employability to see what benefits could accrue to them in a cross-border
context.
We have been given an excellent opportunity to deepen our ties with our
Irish neighbours. We are pleased that structural funds have given us a good
facility for achieving that. As the EU becomes larger, it becomes more
rather than less important for nations such as Scotland to develop
cross-border links and co-operation with other like-minded nations elsewhere
in the UK. That enables us to share our good experience and learn from their
good practice. That system is mutually beneficial and we will support it and
push forward in consultation and co-operation with colleagues from all
parties in the chamber.
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